It’s July and I haven’t been to TC, my old church for about 3 months now. I am more involved in my new church which I actually been going to for over 2 years now but mostly just for small group. I started going to the Sunday service regularly for the past 3 months after I made the decision to do so starting Chinese New Year.

I am building up friendship and it is just so much better when nobody is out there to get you, scheming to force you out, make you feel uncomfortable and etc. It’s what church life should be really.

However, I still have some attachment to my old church. I am still in the small group whatsapp group and starting in July we are put into new groups. I was actually very disappointed with the new group set up. I think the intention of the make up of the groups is about control and containment.

There is this group of people who are just already so closed up with one another and they got their own group on Friday. I was like gees, they don’t need to be put in the small group, they already have their own group. It was like a group tailor made for them with no outsiders and with Joe in there as the leader. Great.

And the two groups on Saturday are seperated into the MS and Shirley supporters and newbies in one group and my group with mostly people I used to be really good friends with along with the pro-MS pastor and pro-MS contact person/leader. I don’t the make up of the other group because a lot of new believers are in it and MS and Shirley will just pound them with bad doctrines and weird thinking. They are going to get brainwash with help of MS and Shirley’s supporters. I don’t like my group because the contact person/leader is a guy who talked behind my back and been jabbing at me for years. I don’t like having the pro-MS pastor there as well.

So I don’t want to go back there and be part of this stupid game.

After May

I haven’t been to my old church,TC, regularly for about a month now and to tell the truth, I don’t miss it all that much even though I do think about it every now and then but I am missing it less and less and there is less of a struggle or yearning to go back there.

I think it helps that I don’t have any audio or usher duty for the month of May. I had one Bible study duty and I confronted the deacon board chairman when I saw him and we had a discussion where I realized he was just being used by Joe and others, he was put in the position like a puppet. A few months ago I already felt that his attitude changed and became very arrogant. I realized that he isn’t really worth my time and it’s a petty that I can’t get through to him. Work had been done on him already.

He was quite disrespectful and I think it’s just so awful that so many people changed for the worst after becoming deacon.

I led Bible study near the end of Acts. I have to thank God that it went well because I was somewhat upset and emotionally compromised a bit even though nobody really knew except for Pastor Vin who came out for a bit and checked what the deacon chairman and I were doing outside.

Pastor Vin later Whatsapped me and invited me to meet with all three pastors at church. The deacon board earlier wanted me to meet with one of the deacons I trust and the newest pastor but now it’s seeing three pastors.

I rather meet with deacon and the new pastor. The pastors are in a tough spot because they are like employees of the deacon board (which they shouldn’t be but that’s just the sad truth at TC), and they need to be obedient or their contracts wouldn’t be renewed.

Anyway, I actually feel better not going there for roughly a month now. I still feel weird going to the new church on Sunday and not seeing familiar people and not knowing too many people, and it seems like everybody got someone.

I really enjoy small group at the new church but I am still trying to build up some serious spiritual relationship but I think we are going at the right direction.

It is still a bit tough because at my old church, everybody knows me. I know everybody. I said hi to everybody. Now, I am like the stranger. I am the outsider when I was an old-timer at my old church. That’s just one of the biggest adjustment. From being like an insider of a church to being an outsider.

I do feel better though overall. I am less angry, less emotional even though I still think about my old church several times a day but the anger is easing. The strange thing is that I care less about my friends and the people at old church after a month. I care less. It’s very strange. I am letting go really. And I was emotionally and spiritually tired and tensed.

When to leave a church ?

This is something I have been pondering for a very long time, a few years at least, if you have been following this  blog and I found this video from youtube really helpful. It also talks about how you should leave a church. I find it to be very sound advice.

And there were a few reasons for me to leave my old church NOW. I need to.

  1. You outgrown the church.
  2. Lack of vision or No opportunity to develop
  3. Bad doctrine
  4. Controlling leadership
  5. It’s a dead church

My old church actually hit all of the points mentioned in the video. Oh my gosh.


Yesterday was AGM at my old church which I attended. It was the worst AGM ever.

We didn’t have enough people and waited for about 25 minutes before we could started. The chairman suggested to first go to the reports first because it doesn’t require votes or approval for members but Chrs said that he never seen a meeting that would rearrange the order of the agenda like that.

I found it a bit ridiculous but the chairman said he wouldn’t do that if anybody is against it, so we waited. My father mentioned that if all the reports are already written in the year book, people who are absent now can read the year book and we can go ahead. But the chairman didn’t budge.

I didn’t think of it then but I think it was a stalling tactic.

When we finally had enough people, Shir started from from last year’s meeting with correcting the wording of what she said as recorded in the year book.

I actually noticed there were many things people said that are missing from the year book. My dad mentioned that what last year’s chairman, Pan, said about the headquarter founding about MS was also missing. I didn’t notice it at all but yes, it was totally missing.

My father requested to have that put back into the year book but the chairman said only the person who said those things has the power to make the change. My father asked last year’s chairman, Pan, if he said those things, Pan said he can’t remember.

I was like, seriously? I had earlier asked if there was a recording and they said yes. So my father said they could put it back in with the recording.

The chairman replied that it is up to the person who said those things. My father was outraged and find that to be an abuse of power because it was a public meeting and they should write it down so people know.

Before that I mentioned how the style and format of how the discussion was recorded on paper is very different from the years before.

I expressed that we are a church under a denomination that is under a member system. Members have the right to know what happened truthfully. Things shouldn’t be hidden and that I think that if the format didn’t change and the wordings were recorded accurately, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

I don’t know why but the chairman kept on telling my dad to stop talking and that it was the end of discussion. But the discussion wasn’t even finished and the request was not inappropriate.

There were four points that the HQ confirmed and Pan said it in front of everybody yet it was not recorded and my dad had been asking me what those were for like two years. The deacon board never replied to my father for two years.

I didn’t think of it then but in hindsight I realized that the deacon board was attempting to just put the whole issue under the rug. It didn’t want to offend MS and his supporter. It doesn’t help when two of the deacons are great supporters of MS, as well as one of the pastors.

Afterwards it was the financial report and renovation reports. Both were very boring. The financial report was about how there is a slight drop in church attendance yet offering increased, yet did not increase as much as last year. It was like a stock owner meeting. It was boring and basically we have like over $7 million cash. The deacon in charge of finance said although there’s 7 million dollars, it is worth less than the 5 million dollars we had like 4 years ago.

I was thinking, we should’ve spent that wisely like 5 years back when we could’ve bought a new place and much bigger place for cheap 2009 during the Financial Tsunami except the deacons never had a meeting on it or even told the congregation about that great opportunities which several leaders were very excited as well as my dad. The same place was bought by another church.

Then it was renovation report which was like 20 minutes and with a 7 minutes sharing by the newest member which was unheard of before. She is my friend and she was honored and excited plus nervous to share in front of so many people. Joe was trying to stall. There was never an individual sharing during AGM, especially when you already were delayed for 30 minutes. And then it was Pan who reported on the “revival” which was basically showing slides on the activities we did and introduce how other churches are doing…

Good question by Hong who asked afterwards, “After showing all the slides, are there any practical plans we will be doing?”

Chairman answered this question,”Revival, … It will be good if we could just agree on who to do renovation.” Meaning, no there isn’t. Agreeing on anything is already a hard task even for renovation.

At the question time at the end, nobody was asking anything so I asked what’s the resolution for the whole MS ordeal. It was resolved. I was a big shocked because just at the beginning of the AGM, his wife stated that MS that he denies everything and report of the HQ committee that investigated the matter.

The pro MS pastor said we had a sharing meeting and I told him the whole meeting was bias. They arranged pro MS people to chair the meeting and the “older members” all said good things about MS.

I shared my experience and observation but I was stopped by the chairman who was making faces and rolling his eyes as I talked which he also did when my father talked. It was very disrespectful.

After the AGM a few people came up to me to talk to me, they felt sorry for me. It was a very empty AGM with nothing much of substance.

It is really time to go. But it’s so petty. It is such a petty. I got some messages with people asking how my father and I are feeling.

I was quite upset at the chairman’s attitude.

I think the worst thing about being the PK is that nobody really understand you and it is very lonely. I know so much, so much bad stuff in the church that it’s hell to live. I have to put those thoughts behind every time going to church and do good work and be nice to everybody despite of all the knowledge and information of what’s actually going on. You can read people’s motives that others can’t. You are a insider and an outsider.

You are not going to be on the same page with others, your peers, unless you have incredible friends, don’t understand you. Evildoers or people with agendas come attack you knowing that you might spill their beans. But we are always reactive. I never imagined that it would be like this yet I could foresee unpresentness.

At night, being quite depressed and down, the disappointment and hopelessness for this church was sinking in. I wrote to the chairman about how I felt and how that he was being disrespectful to us. He told me let’s wait a few days and God will talk to His people himself.

I looked at a video of my small group at the new church I was going and I was smiling.

I know, I know, it’s overdue. I should be out of here. I have been here too long. I am wasting time and energy and all the good God gave me. People don’t appreciate it.

Meeting with deacon and pastor

I met up with a deacon and the newest pastor yesterday concerning my letters to the deacon board about the leadership at fellowship.

It was a good chat. They created a more friendly mood and they told me the deacon board’s difficulties. It was effective in making me sympathise them and I realised that at the same time there are people also writing letters for MS.

It’s an ongoing battle.

The deacon told me he understands and experienced the same things. I wasn’t the only person who got yelled at and was surprised at what they say.

The deacon board seems to try to keep people from leaving which the MS followers are threatening.

I really don’t see the negative in that. I think those people will continue to go to church, just different church and it might be good for them to go to another church and see how MS’ teaching is off. MS and followers are able to create a mini-kingdom at this church because of its weakness but I heard that they have been going to big well-established church so that is not a problem.

I reminded them to follow Paul’s teaching.

And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Matthew 5:30

The wicked

I realized at my old church fellowship there are MS plus wife Shir, Heman and his wife SiuKan, and Joe plus his relatives. MS was former deacon and both him and his wife were/are mentors, Heman is de-facto fellowship leader and wife SiuKan is deacon, Joe is deacon and fellowship founding father and has some kind of mentor role with half of the fellowship because of his seniority. Joe also has his wife working in the church office and relatives as deacon and now bringing up his wife’s brother, Ji, to be new fellowship leader.

They are like the trinity of fellowship.

It’s people like them who mess everyone up.

Originally, it was only MS and probably Joe. And then it spread like a virus. I just don’t see much hope in it. The worst is that they know what they are doing is wrong, they try really hard to hide it but they still do it.

They are committed in this sinful way of doing things in order to get their objective.

The fellowship has a plan to control the church. The mastermind is Joe. MS and Shir want the same but they can’t do it. Joe has the smart to do it with help from like Heman and SiuKan.

The worst thing is that they use the younger people to do their dirty work and to achieve their objective, to take over.

They are all in very powerful and well-respected positions. Joe, SiuKan and several other senior members of the fellowship were all primary, secondary and university schoolmates. So even if a few of these people don’t agree with what’s going on, they won’t speak out against their childhood friends. The best they can do is to stay out from what’s going on.

The worst thing is that there is nobody who is speaking against what is happening.


We would talk and they, the deacon board would stall and would be silence about the matter.

I have a deacon, on his first term, asking me if I would have time to talk about a letter I sent them and he also said they want to understand my situation.

I had talk with deacons before but I find them kind of meaningless because there were never any follow-up or result. What was promised was twisted. The head deacon then promised us that he would personally see to that the advising pastor would tell the outgoing Pastor F on why her contract will not be renewed. It never happened.

Pastor F had to go to the AGM to demand for a explanation and she had to go to a lot of work to get the deacon board to put back in what was said in the House Meeting into the archive so others can read.

So I am thinking that the deacon board just want to hear what I would say and see if they could put a handle on the situation right now so it wouldn’t blow over the AGM in late April. And that would give them some times to handle the AGM.